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rant on distros
  • m0rph
    Posts: 332
    Let's review Backtrack:
    -Comes available as a live cd
    -Has an easy to use install script
    -Get online with minor effort
    -Still have complete control for customization over the kernel
    -Has a lot of hacking tools preinstalled
    -Has numerous different desktop environments all of which can easily be switched out between one another without having to install
    each and every individual package
    -Has a nice-sized (but not nice) support community, who will either answer your question from personal experience, or will refer you to the right place in the documentation...for the most part
    -Is an all around good distro to learn linux on
    -Many packages are automatically installed
    -VAST amount of shit in the apt-get repo's(this is a plus)

    Why I hate Fedora
    -You can count on installing extra packages yourself, this includes wget
    -Default desktop environment looks girly/retarded
    -Does not give root it's own partition by default
    -Has a retarded community of arrogant lamers who instead of solving a problem will only resolve to answering a question with another question.

    To the examples!


    [dschiri1] Well I screwed up fedora 10 somehow. I'm able to start in command line. but I can't get the X server to start up. This is what I get when I try to start X. {codez} Any body know how to fix this? Best Regards
    David

    [sideways] why are you trying to run startx from the command line if you want a graphical session boot to the default runlevel 5 and login using gdm or kdm (or even xdm)?


    As you can see, not only is the perpetrator "sideways" an aggrivator, but he's also a complete fucking retard as dschiri1 clearly said "Anybody know how to fix this?" What kind of an answer is "Why are you trying to ..." Use your brains people, not your buttholes.

    Why I hate Ubuntu
    -The community will never refer you to the documentation
    -Their default desktop environment looks like a fat kid hopped on a table, and took a duce on the screen.
    -See the last tick for why I hate Fedora

    To the examples!


    [Stuki] When I start the computer it says that it can't find the OS and that I should restart the computer. Nothing works... Can anyone help me?

    [Sturm] So it boots up to grub right?


    This idiot made two mistakes:
    1) He answered a question with a question.
    2) He assumed the OP knew what grub was.


    [Stuki] Sorry I'm a new ubuntu user... What(is grub)?



    Complete nonsense. Onwards!

    Why I dislike slackware(if they fixed these issues, I would love slackware):
    -They do not have a support community, and if they do it's hidden deep within the hidden hives of the internet
    -They picked the shittiest bootloader imaginable for their kernel (looking at you LILO)!
    -The documentation for it sucks!
    -The iso is WAAAAAY to big for what actually gets installed
    -No one should have to wait for the second coming of Jesus Christ for their computer to boot like you will with slackware

    To the examples!

    http://www.slackware.com/install/bootdisk.php


    They only reference making a bootdisk in their installion help, but the amount of configuring you have to do to install they don't even scratch the tip of the iceberg.

    Why I hate CentOS, Gentoo, Linux Mint, Mandriva, etc:
    -They all look like Windows 95 after initial install
    -Their communities are just as bad as Fedora's and Ubuntu's
    -They all pretty much offer the same shit (except for Gentoo, that actually has everything you would ever need to start programming)
    -You have to install all packages manually
    -I'll say this again, they are physically off-putting.
    -See last tick of why I hate Fedora.

    To the examples!


    [GaMuTech] I'm trying to get wine to install on centos 5.5 ... Can someone tell me exactly how to do this? Like what commands should I Run, etc. I'm VERY new to linux, and every time I read a guide one command seems to be for one os, and the other command for another.

    [HROAdmin26] Google: how to install wine centos

    [devils casper] Hi and Welcome! Could you post exact error message here? Have you tried to install wine through Package Manager, yum?


    1. Faggot number one needs to be rm'ed and doesn't deserve to use a computer.
    2. Faggot number two needs to stop answering questions with questions.
    3. Getting the exact error message is pointless, as this is only going to confirm he can't install wine.

    Yes, this is a little biased, but hopefully this will help alot of you make your choice about what distro you want. Obviously, if you haven't seen your distro on this list, either I like it, or have never heard of/used it. Not to imply that I'm the grand master of linux, or that my word is law. When you find your distro, you'll know it.

    m0rph
    while( !(succeed = try() ) );
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    Why I hate BackTrack:
    - Teaches nothing
    - Skids boot up, press msfgui, type exploit, call themselves hackers
    - Teaches nothing(did I mention that one?)

    Just my views. Installing Arch Linux was a new experience for me. I actually learned to install drivers, set up configuration files by myself, and actually install. Instead of booting up and pressing some stuff. Sure BT makes life easier but I'd only use it for professional penetration testing things. Not when I actually wanna learn.

    Also pertaining to your "Examples" especially the ones with Ubuntu.
    People need to learn to RTFM.
  • Bursihido
    Posts: 406
    I agree with chroniccommand.
  • Sh3llc0d3
    Posts: 1,910
    Just to throw my $0.02 in

    @m0rph: plenty of other distro's are available live. Plenty of distro's have easy install scripts, allow you online with little config, kernal customisation, (hacking tools: it's a pentesting system) other distro's can have them installed, installing a windows manager isn't hard, gentoo's documentation may as well tell you how to go a make a coffee in the hours of hangtime when your installing it's so detailed, using certain tools makes it good to learn from... using ruby and oter languages etc etc, ubuntu/mint have large repos too.

    @chronic: What would you like a pentesting distro to teach you... thats not it's purpose. Hence why we have so many tutorials about, we've all written them to teach 'skids'/noobs.

    Offensive Security prerequisites:

    solid understanding of TCP/IP, networking, and reasonable Linux skills are required.



    They assume you are competent in linux before using the distro.
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    said:


    @chronic: What would you like a pentesting distro to teach you... thats not it's purpose. Hence why we have so many tutorials about, we've all written them to teach 'skids'/noobs.



    Well 'skids'/noobs should learn to do some stuff themselves. Instead they're spoiled and just boot up BackTrack. So many people these days don't even know how Linux works. Or how MSF works. I'm not calling Backtrack skiddy nor am I calling MSF skiddy. I'm calling some of the people that use it skiddy. I use it from time to time when I need to quickly get a task done pertaning to penetration testing. But when it comes to anything else I use my arch system. Because it forces me to learn. Like I mentioned previously, Arch has taught me many things. I went from Windows(Complete noob) > Ubuntu(learning *nix) > Arch(Getting more advanced at *nix).
  • Sh3llc0d3
    Posts: 1,910
    The problem with backtrack is, well more people in general to be honest is everyone nowadays seems to want things ready for use and right here and now. Backtrack wasn't developed for noob hacker's it just happens to fill the gap between learning to install/config linux systems and programs. <- Ideal for noobs/'skids'.

    People who want to be hacker's and who don't obviously have the raw talent just follow a tutorial and install backtrack.

    I think a natural linux progression should be:
    windows -> Linux mint/ubuntu -> arch/gentoo
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    said:


    The problem with backtrack is, well more people in general to be honest is everyone nowadays seems to want things ready for use and right here and now. Backtrack wasn't developed for noob hacker's it just happens to fill the gap between learning to install/config linux systems and programs. <- Ideal for noobs/'skids'.

    People who want to be hacker's and who don't obviously have the raw talent just follow a tutorial and install backtrack.

    I think a natural linux progression should be:
    windows -> Linux mint/ubuntu -> arch/gentoo



    Pretty much. It's not the distro it's the people. They're getting lazy :P

    Also, after arch/gentoo I think it would be ideal to go to BSD. Maybe something like FreeBSD or OpenBSD(My personal favorite). Considering BSD is bad ass ;P
  • Sh3llc0d3
    Posts: 1,910
    Yeah definitely BSD, you need a psychiatrist if your wanting it as an OS lol
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    said:


    Yeah definitely BSD, you need a psychiatrist if your wanting it as an OS lol



    Hey. BSD is awesome :P

    I'm just still learning *nix though. I'll install it once I get my custom build.
  • m0rph
    Posts: 332
    said:


    Pretty much. It's not the distro it's the people. They're getting lazy :P


    This reminds me of something....oh yeah that's right:
    said:


    Goals for this year: become 1337, and stop being lazy.



    lol, I like backtrack because it's convenient for me. I don't need to spend a lot of time configuring anything, and like you said, if I need to get some testing done I can do it quickly. In all honesty, I have a love/hate relationship with slackware. It's awesome when it's finally set up, but you have to play dodgeball with all of the misconfigurations you make trying to set it up. But at the same time, it forces you to know what you're doing: partitioning, networking, drivers, syncing with repo's, hardening, the works!
    while( !(succeed = try() ) );
  • Xin
    Posts: 3,251
    The question is m0rph, what DO you like :)
    Xin
  • m0rph
    Posts: 332
    said:


    The question is m0rph, what DO you like :)

    believe it or not, slax...even though the default desktop looks like a kindergarten drawing, you can choose what modules you want/don't want in it, you can add all the repositories you want to it prior to downloading, it will run live, and you can still get down to the nitty gritty configuring drivers, disk management, etc (yes, as with most all other distros), but most importantly...from what I've seen anyway, their community is friendly and willing to help out if you can't find what you're looking for.
    while( !(succeed = try() ) );
  • Corrosion
    Posts: 121
    Backtrack annoys me, theres too much in it and for someone who wants to use it as their main os.. we'll keep dreaming, It's not that great.. I mean good tools (poorly documented) I'm just saying 90% have no clue how 98% of the tools work...

    I personally use ubuntu based os's I like apt-get and I'm used to working in it.. I custom build my os from ubuntu to be what I want it to be and compile the sources for things like drivers to ensure they work properly...

    As far as pentesting I've decided to build a ubuntu distro that has just the tools needed for tasks that I do, and for the hell of it I'll release it online as well....

    I've never run Gentoo/Arch but I'll have to take a look
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    said:


    Backtrack annoys me, theres too much in it and for someone who wants to use it as their main os.. we'll keep dreaming, It's not that great.. I mean good tools (poorly documented) I'm just saying 90% have no clue how 98% of the tools work...

    I personally use ubuntu based os's I like apt-get and I'm used to working in it.. I custom build my os from ubuntu to be what I want it to be and compile the sources for things like drivers to ensure they work properly...

    As far as pentesting I've decided to build a ubuntu distro that has just the tools needed for tasks that I do, and for the hell of it I'll release it online as well....

    I've never run Gentoo/Arch but I'll have to take a look


    Quick correction here, ubuntu is based of Debian. So you use debian based distros :P

    But yea Arch and Gentoo are both very awesome. I'd say they're top two on my list of favorite GNU/Linux distros.
  • Corrosion
    Posts: 121
    Wasn't thinking when I wrote it, thanx....
  • Xin
    Posts: 3,251
    said:


    said:


    Backtrack annoys me, theres too much in it and for someone who wants to use it as their main os.. we'll keep dreaming, It's not that great.. I mean good tools (poorly documented) I'm just saying 90% have no clue how 98% of the tools work...

    I personally use ubuntu based os's I like apt-get and I'm used to working in it.. I custom build my os from ubuntu to be what I want it to be and compile the sources for things like drivers to ensure they work properly...

    As far as pentesting I've decided to build a ubuntu distro that has just the tools needed for tasks that I do, and for the hell of it I'll release it online as well....

    I've never run Gentoo/Arch but I'll have to take a look


    Quick correction here, ubuntu is based of Debian. So you use debian based distros :P

    But yea Arch and Gentoo are both very awesome. I'd say they're top two on my list of favorite GNU/Linux distros.




    Im still playing in Debian as i know it so well, i really should branch out, what do you think for my next step? My Security Admin magazine came with a Fedora disc i might boot that up.
    Xin
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    said:


    said:


    said:


    Backtrack annoys me, theres too much in it and for someone who wants to use it as their main os.. we'll keep dreaming, It's not that great.. I mean good tools (poorly documented) I'm just saying 90% have no clue how 98% of the tools work...

    I personally use ubuntu based os's I like apt-get and I'm used to working in it.. I custom build my os from ubuntu to be what I want it to be and compile the sources for things like drivers to ensure they work properly...

    As far as pentesting I've decided to build a ubuntu distro that has just the tools needed for tasks that I do, and for the hell of it I'll release it online as well....

    I've never run Gentoo/Arch but I'll have to take a look


    Quick correction here, ubuntu is based of Debian. So you use debian based distros :P

    But yea Arch and Gentoo are both very awesome. I'd say they're top two on my list of favorite GNU/Linux distros.




    Im still playing in Debian as i know it so well, i really should branch out, what do you think for my next step? My Security Admin magazine came with a Fedora disc i might boot that up.


    Ew fedora :P
    I've tried it before. Nothing special I'm not a very big fan of it. Plus I'm not very fond of RPM.
  • Sh3llc0d3
    Posts: 1,910
    NOOOOO not fedora! I prefer debian based distro's, debian 5.0 on my vps is awesomely quick.
  • Xin
    Posts: 3,251
    said:


    NOOOOO not fedora! I prefer debian based distro's, debian 5.0 on my vps is awesomely quick.



    You not upgraded to squeeze yet? They dont do a lot of the packages for lenny now, like some of the new php updates arent out on lenny.
    Xin
  • chroniccommand
    Posts: 1,389
    Debian like distros are pretty good. So is apt-get but I'm more of a fan of pacman ;P

    The portage package manager is pretty good too.
  • Xin
    Posts: 3,251
    What is pacman for? Arch?
    Xin
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